Council Tax :-(

[blond1e]

Just received our new council tax bill £200 a month - can't believe how much they are charging for council tax. I know it goes to pay for a whole host of things but is it just me or is this excessive?

So tired of scrimping and saving buying clothes from Mr T etc when everyone else is splashing out on designer gear because they live in council houses where their rent is only a couple of hundred a month. DH works so hard so that we don't have to claim anything from Govt in order to leave it for those that really need it (eg. aged and disabled etc.) but it seems to be going to people who are fit and able but can't be bothered.

Sorry just having a fed up day!!
Blond1e
PS. Not saying everyone in council housing shouldn't be there but there is a large number of people who just see it as a cheap alternative.

[chelseatom]

i live in a council house and i can assure you i dont swan about in designer gear

[blond1e]

sorry chelseatom I didn't mean to generalise - of course not everyone is like that and I shouldn't generalise. One of my very close family members lives in a council house too and we visit all the time and there are a couple of good friends on the estate who are genuine hard workers and amazing lovely people but there are a good few on the same estate who we chat to who wouldn't be seen dead in anything that didn't have a "label" on it and were downright appalled that my son started school in sept using a Mr T Jacket and their son had a £70 designer jacket.

Apologies for generalising and didn't mean to offend.

[addictedtosaving]

What I don't agree with is the way the bandings are set. For example, my parents live in a 4 bedroom detached house that they have lived in since I was a child and they are in band D paying about £150 per month. The services they receive from the local council are no different to those of their neighbour who lives in a terraced house and is in band A paying less than £100 per month.

[navara]

Bring back the poll tax then every one pays the same

[mhoc]

We have been in the same house for donkeys years and a for a few years now the council tax has been more than the mortgage

[dune]

council tax??? well worth it ;)

for your hard earned money you get......

Binmen ...who regularly miss you or throw your rubbish all over the street
Police who can't be bothered to turn up when you have a break in
Road gritters who never grit your street
Community police who walk arond the shopping malls cos its cold on the streets and who can't arrest you anyway (chocolate fire guards come to mind)
Plus you'll be happy to know that while your pensions are been erroded your topping up council workers pensions from your payments

Thankfully the fire service is still on the ball

[Grace & Favour]

council tax??? well worth it ;)

for your hard earned money you get......

Binmen ...who regularly miss you or throw your rubbish all over the street
Police who can't be bothered to turn up when you have a break in
Road gritters who never grit your street
Community police who walk arond the shopping malls cos its cold on the streets and who can't arrest you anyway (chocolate fire guards come to mind)
Plus you'll be happy to know that while your pensions are been erroded your topping up council workers pensions from your payments

Thankfully the fire service is still on the ball

I think the fire service is still at their ball:)

[tiger]

Bring back the poll tax then every one pays the same

Yes, much fairer I think.

[holliemon]

:behindsofa:I am quite happy with my council tax payments as my house is set behind a row of terraced houses so we are lumped in with them and are in Band B. I hate to think what we should be paying:behindsofa:

[honeybunch]

Lol wish my council rent was a couple of hundred, we pay £390 a month for a tiny 2 bed 1st floor flat with no garden. Our council tax is £99, I think that's fair really. £200 does seem excessive! :)

[chelseatom]

Lol wish my council rent was a couple of hundred, we pay £390 a month for a tiny 2 bed 1st floor flat with no garden. Our council tax is £99, I think that's fair really. £200 does seem excessive! :)

mines £59 a week, 3 bed semi with garage

[honeybunch]

mines £59 a week, 3 bed semi with garage

Wanna swap? :D

[VeryTrying]

Bring back the poll tax then every one pays the same

Yes, much fairer I think.


I never understood what prompted the poll tax riots. :confused:

I always thought that a poll tax was much the fairest way of paying for the services ....... unfotunately those that had never paid and didn't want to either, failed to agree with me.

[charlotsofun]

i think that every body should pay a set amount.
why should 1 person pay more than another for the same service its so unfair.

[dune]

I never understood what prompted the poll tax riots. :confused:

I always thought that a poll tax was much the fairest way of paying for the services ....... unfotunately those that had never paid and didn't want to either, failed to agree with me.

it was in some ways but not others

remember it was per person over 18. Even if you weren't working

If i remember rightly my poll tax was £70 per person per month.. which works out at 50% more than what we pay now

Even if you were unemployed on £60 job seekers (a lot less then) you still had to pay what you personally owed
If you had kids over 18 not working they had to pay full amount

It probably was a fairer way but at the time as now there was high unemployment (3m) and unemployed still had to pay the full amount

Its swings and roundabout both ways

only trouble is..i'm on the swings when everyone else is on the roundabouts :(

[Made in Devon]

I live in a council house too... My rent has gone up by £36 per month (with effect beg of April), when people with mortgages have the advantage of interest rates going down. Last year my council tax was £180 per month, so I imagine it will be topping the £200 figure this time

[Diamond]

we live in a private house and pay nealry £200 pm, one of our biggest expenses after mortgage and food!

[Grace & Favour]

I live in a council house too... My rent has gone up by £36 per month (with effect beg of April), when people with mortgages have the advantage of interest rates going down. Last year my council tax was £180 per month, so I imagine it will be topping the £200 figure this time


It shouldn't be higher than £193, :)

[jacijim]

i dont see why we should pay the same as everybody else.
we have unmade roads which we have to repair ourelves, so there pot holes
no street lights
bin emptied fortnightly, no shops, nearest 4 miles away
and nothing else.
so why do we pay the same as others???

[Darkangel709]

Cos you do and you shouldnt live out in sticks!! :P lmao xxx

[SAVVYSHOPPER]

I live in a terraced house and my Council Tax is £150 per month. Why do peeps have a 'downer' on terraced houses

Sorry had a bad day!

xxSS

[Button]

I love terraced houses! :)

[far canel]

I'm really shocked at the amounts you pay council tax. Not wishing to turn this thread into a peeing contest, but ours was only £1,078 last year, and reports are its only increasing by 3%.

[VeryTrying]

I love terraced houses! :)


Me too! I find it's the neighbours who are the problem :)

[Siaron]

i dont see why we should pay the same as everybody else.
we have unmade roads which we have to repair ourelves, so there pot holes
no street lights
bin emptied fortnightly, no shops, nearest 4 miles away
and nothing else.
so why do we pay the same as others???

Your shops are closer than mine! Living in the back of beyond we too have pot holed roads that the council never seem to get to before their money runs out. We don't have proper street lighting - the lights share the same poles as the telegraph poles.
But I wouldn't live anywhere else - it's my choice to live this far out of civilisation!!!
xx

[tiger]

Many years ago, before poll tax and before council tax bands, we appealed against our rates. We had an unmade road, so no gritting in winter, bins not emptied during snow etc., no shops nearby, a long walk to the nearest bus stop and no street lights. The person that came out to see us said "but look at the fantastic views you have". The council didn't provide it, but they were ready to tax us on it. lol
Council tax, poll tax or rates, whatever system you have it will never suit everybody. We are lucky at the moment because we qualify for help with council tax. I feel sorry though for people who are just above the level for help.

[mummum123]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

People pay £200 for council tax oh my, I complain all the time about the price of my council tax bill (was paying £103 each month last year) think I am a lucky girl

[DIVA1977]

Come to Wales, what pees me off in my county. Is teh numpty and farmers who all loaded pay no community council tax and lower police etc on their bill and they got all the fblimmin money.

I read them boring pamphlets they shove in whilst doing a number 2. And seems you get penalised for living near town. It shows breakdown and poor s**s like me than can only afford 3 bed terrace near town pay more than farmer giles with his 5 bed in the middle of nowhere.

Omg id loved to have land and big house and especially of meant less rates too. I dont even get free bin bags like neighbourson other side. As council claims the recyling trucks cant access the lane our rubbish is collected from.

[Khufu]

Bring back the poll tax then every one pays the same

You're right why shouldn't people sleeping six in a tiny two bed terrace pay the same as two living in a five bed mansion - its not like either is better able to pay than the other is it?

Let them eat cake, and caviar, and proper Heinz beans I say

[Khufu]

i dont see why we should pay the same as everybody else.
we have unmade roads which we have to repair ourelves, so there pot holes
no street lights
bin emptied fortnightly, no shops, nearest 4 miles away
and nothing else.
so why do we pay the same as others???

I don't know, I think you're right let's rethink all taxes - my child has never developed leukemia, I've never had to have a heart bypass, and my husband has never been seriously injured in a car crash - why should my taxes go to subsidise those that have?

[Khufu]

The clue's in the name: it is a tax! You are not buying services!

[MrsTom]

Plus you'll be happy to know that while your pensions are been erroded your topping up council workers pensions from your payments



Should Council Workers not have a decent pension then?

Local Authorities income is not only generated by Council tax, therefore pension contributions the employers make (in this case the local authority) is not just funded by Council Tax but also by other means.

[Grace & Favour]

Should Council Workers not have a decent pension then?

Local Authorities income is not only generated by Council tax, therefore pension contributions the employers make (in this case the local authority) is not just funded by Council Tax but also by other means.

Of course they may have a pension . . but as far as I know - Councils mainly get revenue from two sources - - Council Tax, and The Government . . .(which is raised from us by taxation) . . .

So, and I'm not disputing the correctness or wisdom of the system - all Council Workers income, whether direct or indirect, is paid for by Taxes on the rest of the (tax-paying) population . .

[MrsTom]

Please see below which I have cut and paste from my LA website - Council tax only makes up 16% of income.

The main sources of income to the council are as follows:

Government grant 43 per cent
Fees and charges and external service grants 41 per cent
Council tax 16 per cent

[Khufu]

Please see below which I have cut and paste from my LA website - Council tax only makes up 16% of income.

The main sources of income to the council are as follows:

Government grant 43 per cent
Fees and charges and external service grants 41 per cent
Council tax 16 per cent

Let's get rid of the 16% of spending that I don't use then -police and fire service and pay for them on a use by use basis too!;)

[VeryTrying]

You're right why shouldn't people sleeping six in a tiny two bed terrace pay the same as two living in a five bed mansion - its not like either is better able to pay than the other is it?


You're quite right - it's NOT as if either is better able to pay than the other.

Living in the terrace might be two working parents, a working brother-in-law, two working children, and one child who is still at school but generates a little income by way of children's allowance and child tax credit.

Living in the "mansion" might be an elderly lady and her even more elderly mother. They are living on pension and a little savings.

This just shows how unfair it is (either way) for council tax to be based on size of house. If a poll tax won't do, then it will just have to be added to the existing income tax and paid for centrally from government funds.

Those who earn will pay, those whose income isn't big enough, won't. So then there will be five lots of additional income tax coming from the terraced house and none from the "mansion". Sounds good to me :D

[Dominic]

We can argue or discuss or whatever till the cows come home. You will always find people support what costs them the least so you aren't going to please everyone. The fact is it only takes one bin lorry to stop once whether you have a full bin (5 people in house) or a third full one (one or two in house). Ditto if the house catches fire or if there is a burglary the costs will be broadly the same for a house with 5 in it or 2 in it. Arguably greater if it is a bigger house tho if it catches fire, regardless of how many live there?

If it was so easy to agree on a fair system that suited everyone then it wouldn't be such an emotive subject!!!!

[Dominic]

Meant to also say I don't see what relevence it is whether you have shops nearby. Shops aren't provided by the council!! I see more the argument with street lights, as to the rural/town debate, but again it could be argued it takes two lights to light the pavement outside a big house and only one for a small house.

[blond1e]

I agree it'll never be completely fair for everyone. I really disagree on charging more income tax as DH has worked so so so hard right from the bottom to get where he is today and pays a huge amount of tax - why is it if you work hard to create a skill for yourself and earn a good salary you get penalised for it? DH and I came to England 11yrs ago with only £700 and no family and NO skills - we've managed to study at night and work during the day to get skills and work hard to get a really good life without accepting even £1 in benefits so why can't everyone do that - we're nothing special - just hard workers?

[Made in Devon]

I don't wish to be a Devils Advocate, but earlier in this thread you made a sweeping statement about council houses. It's excellent that you and your OH have worked hard and suceeded, well done you. However the benefit system is there for a reason, sure it does get abused, but it also is needed by many who would never have chose to be in those circumstances.

[tiger]

If it was so easy to agree on a fair system that suited everyone then it wouldn't be such an emotive subject!!!!

Very true. I'm in my sixties and I can't remember a system that suited everyone.
Also the needs of people change as they get older and what would seem an unfair system to a couple with no children is actually making provision for when they do have a family and need libraries and schools. None of us knows when we are going to need the fire or police services etc. but they are there for when we do.
As for street lights, we've never had them on this lane and are just used to it. It's rarely complete dark and we can use a torch if necessary. I think there are too many street lights on most roads.
As for shops, you are right they aren't provided by the council but houses are rated according to what rent could be obtained from renting them out and a convenient location might get more rent. Likewise living somewhere with a nice view makes it more attractive to prospective tenants or buyers.

[tiger]

I agree it'll never be completely fair for everyone. I really disagree on charging more income tax as DH has worked so so so hard right from the bottom to get where he is today and pays a huge amount of tax - why is it if you work hard to create a skill for yourself and earn a good salary you get penalised for it? DH and I came to England 11yrs ago with only £700 and no family and NO skills - we've managed to study at night and work during the day to get skills and work hard to get a really good life without accepting even £1 in benefits so why can't everyone do that - we're nothing special - just hard workers?

I agree with you. You can't keep taxing the same people all the time.

[blond1e]

I completely support the benefits/council house system and think its VERY necessary. But I think its terribly abused and I know this first hand from ALOT of "friends" who see it as a "cheap" alternative.

[Khufu]

Well I don't support the system that suits me best. I live in a massive house in teh country and consequently have a massive council tax bill. I get no bin collection, no street lighting, no community officer etc etc. I also have a very low crime rate, no nuisance neighbours, etc. etc.

Council tax costs me a lot but I accept it is a tax. I chose to spend my money in my house and so I am taxed on the money in my house. If I chose to spend my money on beer I would be taxed on the beer. If I chose to spend my money on Lynx or Plax I would be taxed on teh Lynx and Plax. I would then live in a smaller house and have lower council tax.

Whatever you spend your money on you will be taxed.

I think taxes are a good thing. I want to live in a society which looks after the vulnerable and provides on the basis of need not affluence.

Ergo I moan that my bill is high when I have to pay it, but it is an informed decision to live this way so I accept it. If my situation changed so that this tax was making me too poor I would move somewhere else.

[obscure]

Nicely put Khufu!!! :)

The ways in which tax is raised (council tax, VAT etc) and how it is spent (health care, benefits etc) are also very different issues and should be considered separately rather than dumped in the same old circular argument.

[the_kid]

Southerners have an increase in council tax due to the government subsidising the Northern Councils....and now we have to subsidise the Olympcis as well, which many of us don't even want!

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/council-tax/article.html?in_article_id=405697&in_page_id=82

[VeryTrying]

I live in a massive house in the country .....

Ergo I moan that my bill is high when I have to pay it,


Only somebody living in a country mansion would use the word "ergo". You can always tell, class will out :p:p:p

[navara]

Southerners have an increase in council tax due to the government subsidising the Northern Councils....and now we have to subsidise the Olympcis as well, which many of us don't even want!

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/tax-advice/council-tax/article.html?in_article_id=405697&in_page_id=82

Bit out of date that article but then so's this (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23418047-details/The+new+north-south+divide:+Worcester%27s+in+the+north+and+Linco ln%27s+in+the+south/article.do)

[the_kid]

Yes, the article is a few years out of date, but still applicable to date...just goes to show how long it has been going on for.

[Khufu]

Only somebody living in a country mansion would use the word "ergo". You can always tell, class will out :p:p:p

Whilst it is indubitably evident that I’m frightfully posh now I a wor born on Moss Side :D

[princesskerry]

We can argue or discuss or whatever till the cows come home. You will always find people support what costs them the least so you aren't going to please everyone. The fact is it only takes one bin lorry to stop once whether you have a full bin (5 people in house) or a third full one (one or two in house). Ditto if the house catches fire or if there is a burglary the costs will be broadly the same for a house with 5 in it or 2 in it. Arguably greater if it is a bigger house tho if it catches fire, regardless of how many live there?

If it was so easy to agree on a fair system that suited everyone then it wouldn't be such an emotive subject!!!!

These points are so true, no doubt I wouldn't necessarily agree with my parents or grandparents as they are in a better financial position then myself and I have children, likewise someone living in a large country house isn't going to agree with someone living in a tiny inner city semi.

[VeryTrying]

Whilst it is indubitably evident that I’m frightfully posh now I a wor born on Moss Side :D


Poor you :D

But look on the bright side, you could have been born in Liverpool :behindsofa:

[VeryTrying]

These points are so true, no doubt I wouldn't necessarily agree with my parents or grandparents as they are in a better financial position then myself and I have children, likewise someone living in a large country house isn't going to agree with someone living in a tiny inner city semi.


I can agree with anybody who proposes a FAIR system - not one that benefits only me, or only you/your parents/your grandparents, but one that is FAIR, even though it costs me money. Khufu has already explained this - some people are able to look further than their own interests.

[Dominic]

I can agree with anybody who proposes a FAIR system - not one that benefits only me, or only you/your parents/your grandparents, but one that is FAIR, even though it costs me money. Khufu has already explained this - some people are able to look further than their own interests.

I can agree a fair system too, as long as I am not worse off because of it lol :p

[Angel]

mines £59 a week, 3 bed semi with garage

I pay considerably more than that for a one bed (Housing Association owned) flat :eek:

[MARIO4068]

I rang to see if I could pay my council tax for the year (hoping for a discount) they dont have one?? Said that I was asking for preferential treatment cos not everyone could be in that position. !!!!

[Dominic]

Ah well you see in this wonderfully democratic society we have to ensure we don't discriminate against those less fortunate than ourselves. I mean, give you a discount and you'd have those supposedly disadvantaged people looting shops to enable them to do the same!!

[Mrs Lady C]

We pay £2900 a year for our house which works out approx £242 a month.
I remember the poll tax riot under thatchers goverment, personally I didn't like individual poll tax I prefer a household tax. :)

[msjg]

We pay £2900 a year for our house which works out approx £242 a month.
I remember the poll tax riot under thatchers goverment, personally I didn't like individual poll tax I prefer a household tax. :)

Good lord thats a lot:eek: you must live in a castle:D, think band d the average is about £1500.00 ish here I thought that was a lot.

[markat]

Will she is Mrs Lady C !

[Aardvaak]

I pay over £2000 a year in Council Tax - I have long since said it's a very expensive way to get your bins emptied as there are no other advantages I get from the Council!

[Made in Devon]

There was an interesting programme on a month or two ago, about a street that were part of a social experiment where they did not pay council tax for a month, therefore they did not receive any services supplied by the council. The money that would have been paid to the council that month was pooled and between the residents they had to agree what needed to be paid for. Bins, parks, libraries, school dinners, school transport, after-school clubs, residential care, street lights, housing benefit, clean up of vandalism and graffiti - cannot remember the various other examples, but basically every household had different needs and you may not use certain services at the moment, but you may in the future, or you may already have done.

This was the programme, unfortunately it is no longer on Iplayer though http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b011crrw

[Dominic]

Yep I must say it makes me laugh when people say 'all I get is my bins emptied'. I guess if you don't walk on any pavements or ever walk under street lights or benefit from the controls of planning or use a library or want anything in your area swept, repaired etc then that is fair comment lol.

[Aardvaak]

Yep I must say it makes me laugh when people say 'all I get is my bins emptied'. I guess if you don't walk on any pavements or ever walk under street lights or benefit from the controls of planning or use a library or want anything in your area swept, repaired etc then that is fair comment lol.

But being in a very rural location I do not use any of those.

[VeryTrying]

I've never yet called the police to my house, so I don't want to pay for them.
I'm not disabled so want to cancel all support services for them.
I bought my own house so don't use social housing.
I can look after myself so don't want to pay for social care for the elderly.
I've never used state schools so please reduce my council tax.
I never go in a local council park.
I've never claimed housing benefit.

Actually, I wrote the above facetiously but am now thinking ....... what DO I get from the council for the thousands of pounds I pay a year :D

Oh, I do go to the travelling library ..... or should I say I used to go to the travelling library ...... but they are stopping it next month.

[missmeggie1]

Do you get street lighting? Don't forget how expensive the lecky is now!

[oldvicar]

Do you get street lighting? Don't forget how expensive the lecky is now!

You are joking? We don't have any street ligts here. And in the big city umpteen miles away they are planning to turn them off from midnight.


And they've just closed most of the Tips ... (Household Waste Recycling Centres)

[Gizmos]

we've no street lights - the roads are not adopted by the council - and the council will not come and empty the bins at the moment as the roads need an inspection (dread to think if that means police/ fire /amblance will not attend)

but we have to pay it :(

mind you it does make my blood boil when you hear of people getting £36k a year tax free and say they need more money

[VeryTrying]

Yep I must say it makes me laugh when people say 'all I get is my bins emptied'. I guess if you don't walk on any pavements or ever walk under street lights or benefit from the controls of planning or use a library or want anything in your area swept, repaired etc then that is fair comment lol.

Aardvaark is not far wrong. I hardly ever walk on pavements in my local area, same for street lights 'cos we don't have them.
And I dispute the use of the word "benefit" in connection with planning controls ;)

I'm paying a lot for the soon-to-be-removed library!

[Aardvaak]

Do you get street lighting? Don't forget how expensive the lecky is now!

No street lighting for miles

[Aardvaak]

Aardvaark is not far wrong. I hardly ever walk on pavements in my local area, same for street lights 'cos we don't have them.
And I dispute the use of the word "benefit" in connection with planning controls ;)

I'm paying a lot for the soon-to-be-removed library!

I hav'nt got any pavements around me either

[oldvicar]

I frequently get a nice glossy magazine saying how well they are spending my money in these difficult times.

[Waterfall]

But being in a very rural location I do not use any of those.
Rural areas cost the most to maintain - fewer council tax payers and any services being out on a limb so cost more to maintain.

I would love to live in a rural area :) but work does not permit it at the moment.

[Made in Devon]

I live in a rurual area, no street lights for miles, about a mile away from a bus stop (Council do give grants to bus companies to run rural services) no pavements on the road, I haven't lived here for a winter yet so I don't know what the gritting service will be for the nearby road. No library in the nearest village, if there is a mobile one, I don't know about it. I too get a glossy leaflet from the council delivered monthly, however it is not from my council, it is from the neighbouring one!

I think some areas definately have more facilities than other areas, however after watching the programme a few weeks back I do realise that things are not as simple as they seem.

[fairygirl]

I watched that programme and found it very interesting.

We are very lucky here, we rent a 3 bed end terrace, have 3 different coloured wheelie bins, 2 of which are emptied weekly and the other fortnightly (binmen are lovely too and will take extra bags if bin is full which i've never had elsewhere). We have recently had new street lights fitted, we are within close proximity to shops, train station ect. and all for £950ish a year


The down side..............you have to live in Runcorn! :p lol