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charlotsofun
30th July 2009, 13:18
hi every1

i sold an item at the end of june on ebay it was an integrated freezer brand new in original packaging with guarantee card inside.
buyer filled ou8t guarantee card and sent it off and has also rang and they have said that it is under guarantee but as he didnt buy it direct from them he will have to pay call out charge and he is not happy to do that.

buyer received freezer left good feedback and almost a month later decides to switch the freezer on and low and behold it is not getting cold so has said under the sale of goods act i have to arrange collection of the item and refund him his money.

can anyone help on what i actually need to do in this circumstance.

cheers

holliemon
30th July 2009, 13:47
surely he should contact the manufacturers and get them out - I know he will have a call out fee - but he choose to buy from you.

Not up on ebay rules though

Waterfall
30th July 2009, 13:50
Are you a private seller? The rules are different if you are trade..Hope it gets sorted for you.

Grace & Favour
30th July 2009, 13:56
As Waterfall says - if you are a trader - then the Sale of Goods Act applies

If you are a private individual - and you did NOT sell this item as a trader - then the buyer will have to go to the original retailer (if you tell him who it is) or the manufacturer

angelic
30th July 2009, 14:04
Waterfall and G&F have both correctly pointed out it makes a difference whether you are a trader or not.
It is also important from your point of view if you are actually a trader, but are not registered with Ebay as a business seller.

Sale of Goods Act only applies to retailers/traders.
Private sales between two individuals are not covered by this Act - in such a case, onus is on the buyer to be sure what they are buying.
However, if it is only a month since the transaction payment was made, the buyer can raise a dispute.

It would be helpful if you could say if you are a private seller or not so we can advise you properly.
It would also depend on how the buyer paid and did they collect?

points
30th July 2009, 14:22
I always understood that once feedcback from the buyer has been left ebay consider the transaction complete and will not do anything?????????????

Waterfall
30th July 2009, 14:54
I always understood that once feedcback from the buyer has been left ebay consider the transaction complete and will not do anything?????????????
Did your finger get stuck on the '?' :lol:

Ebay may not but paypal might as within 45 days. Aslo different rules if a trader

charlotsofun
30th July 2009, 15:54
hi all. i do have an ebay shop
the buyer paid through paypal and the freezer was delivered by courier.

Grace & Favour
30th July 2009, 16:02
hi all. i do have an ebay shop
the buyer paid through paypal and the freezer was delivered by courier.


But are you a trader . . . VAT registered maybe? - self-employed businesswoman? - Are electrical white goods your business?

charlotsofun
30th July 2009, 16:20
yes we have a seperate business to our ebay that is vat registered and recently managed to aquire a small amount of liquidated stock from another company this is what i am selling on ebay. the freezer was the only white good appliance that was in the lot.
can someone advise on what are the steps i need to take as a vat registered seller and as a private seller.

angelic
30th July 2009, 21:44
yes we have a seperate business to our ebay that is vat registered and recently managed to aquire a small amount of liquidated stock from another company this is what i am selling on ebay. the freezer was the only white good appliance that was in the lot.
can someone advise on what are the steps i need to take as a vat registered seller and as a private seller.

Link to Distance Selling Regulations (DSR's) which you have to comply with as a business seller -

http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/legal/distance-selling-regulations/

Basically goods have to be as described and function for purpose - in case of the freezer, it should work. Any failure falls back on you as seller.

As a private seller, buyer would file a dispute stating Not as Described and it would be more than likely PayPal would require proof of the appliance not working prior to refunding.

If there is a possibility the freezer was damaged in transit, you as seller could claim against the courier but after the length of time, I doubt this would work.

charlotsofun
31st July 2009, 10:27
personally i think the buyer has damaged the freezer when he fitted it.
i also can clarify that i am not a trade seller the things i am selling on ebay are items given to me to try and make a little cash to take the kids away i was a bit unclear as to were i stand on being a trade seller because we have our own business.

thanks for all your advice guys i really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Waterfall
31st July 2009, 10:44
I had a case where I think the buyer damaged an item to force a return.

I took the item back as if they go through paypal they side with the buyer and I didnt want the item damaged further (which I thought they may do if I made life difficult for them).

I hope you get this resolved. :hug:

pookienoodle
31st July 2009, 11:18
hi every1

i sold an item at the end of june on ebay it was an integrated freezer brand new in original packaging with guarantee card inside.
buyer filled ou8t guarantee card and sent it off and has also rang and they have said that it is under guarantee but as he didnt buy it direct from them he will have to pay call out charge and he is not happy to do that.

buyer received freezer left good feedback and almost a month later decides to switch the freezer on and low and behold it is not getting cold so has said under the sale of goods act i have to arrange collection of the item and refund him his money.

can anyone help on what i actually need to do in this circumstance.

cheers

A couple of things strike me as strange,
why is he not just asking you to pay the call out fee?
why is there a call out fee anyway? if it under guarantee it should not matter where he bought it from.

angelic
31st July 2009, 13:39
personally i think the buyer has damaged the freezer when he fitted it.
i also can clarify that i am not a trade seller the things i am selling on ebay are items given to me to try and make a little cash to take the kids away i was a bit unclear as to were i stand on being a trade seller because we have our own business.

thanks for all your advice guys i really appreciate you taking the time to help me.

Thanks for clarifying you sold as a private individual.

I suspect as you do that the buyer has in some way damaged the freezer hence his reluctance to involve the guarantee with the manufacturer.

As you sold the item fully packed as if straight from a supplier, then either the item was faulty from source (whoever you got it from) but you wouldn't have known if it was packed.

I really don't understand why the buyer didn't check the freezer until now? If I had bought something like this from Ebay, I would have checked it right away even if I didn't intend to use it immediately.

I would politely advise the buyer he has the guarantee and it is up to him to deal with the manufacturer as the guarantee card was filled out by him and is therefore in his name.
Explain (again politely) that there is no more you can do and the onus is on the buyer. I would also ask why it took so long to report the fault?

If he raises a PayPal dispute, he will need to do so within 45 days of payment and will then need to prove to PayPal that the item is damaged. This will not be easy as he will need to provide written proof from someone professional.

charlotsofun
3rd August 2009, 10:21
this guy has now raised a paypal dispute saying item was not as described and is faulty and also added some made up conversations that apparently took place between the two of us.
his reason for leaving it so long he did pay for this freezer on the 29th june is because his kitchen has only just been finished that is why the freezer has only just been fitted and turned on. that is different to what he told me over the phone.
however i have offered to pay the call out fee that he has been told the manufacturer will charge then we will see what the problem is with the freezer.
thanks again guys.

angelic
3rd August 2009, 13:49
Onus will now be on the buyer to provide written evidence that the freezer is faulty as that is what PayPal will instruct him to do.

Be sure in your response to the dispute you explain freezer was sold with full guarantee and buyer is refusing to contact the manufacturer ;)

Don't enter into any communication with the buyer other than via the PayPal dispute form.
Be sure to keep copies of any correspondence you have had so far with the buyer. Also print off a copy of your auction page.

Everything crossed for the right result - things just aren't adding up with the buyer's refusal to involve the manufacturer or the guarantee :rolleyes:

Please keep us updated - good luck :)

DIVA1977
3rd August 2009, 14:28
I dont know if it helps, but i remember reading in T & C's that the onus was on me to check the condition my white goods arrived in b4 i signed for them.

Now this stopped me buying from local independent as i was told if i wanted them to take packaging awat they charge me 20, because as a business they get charged for rubbish.
So i went with Comet as the boys either on it on site or on the lorry b4 they deliver. So i was able to have a quick check b4 i signed for my goods.

So basically your buyer should of checked b4 he signed for it from the courier IMO

the_kid
3rd August 2009, 17:39
I recently bought a 3 month old condenser tumble dryer from ebay, seller delivered, all was well, seemed a nice chap etc. But when it came to turning it on, it didn't work properly.

I emailed him and asked him for his receipt etc to be posted to me so I could call them out as it was still under warranty, he said he would send it out registered that day.

When I called to ask for an engineer to come out to fix it, they did have it down as a different name, but I told them it was my uncle that bought it for me and the machine was actually mine, engineer sent out no problems.

Within 3 days my tumble dryer was fixed and working perfectly.

As it was under warranty I had no problem with the seller, it was listed as working, but during a conversation he told me his wife didn't like it as it didn't dry properly and she wanted a normal tumble dryer...seems if he had checked it, he would have realised it wasn't working, he could have called out an engineer himself, had the machine fixed and it would have worked properly and no need to sell at a massive loss on ebay and have to buy a new tumble dryer!

charlotsofun
18th August 2009, 16:17
can anyone tell me if i am classed as a trader just because i opened an ebay shop to sell some things.
im still having trouble with this guy ive offered to pay the call out charge for the manufacturer to come out and look at the freezer but the guy is just stating he has been advised by the Which? Legal Service that any warranty/guarantee I have filled out for the manufacturer sits alongside my rights under the Sale of Goods Act. Therefore I still require either my money back from you or a working product. Should I not hear back from you within 2 days with confirmation of either, I will not be pursuing my claim any further via PayPal, but will be writing to you setting out my claim, which I will submit to the County Court if necessary.
please can any1 help.


thanks

Waterfall
18th August 2009, 16:54
:hug: That is horribl esp as you have tried to help.

Theorectically if you buy new stuff to sell on at a profit you should have a trader account :behindsofa: and you get different fee rates and T&C's as have been quoted.

If you havent opened a trader account you are not a trader. You can sell new things that are gifts or that you have bought for yourself but no longer want.

Freebird
18th August 2009, 17:03
Sorry Waterfall, that's not strictly true. You are classed as a trader if you buy goods to sell on at a profit, whether or not you have a business account or a shop on ebay. OP has already confirmed that he/she & OH have a business and sell some of the items on ebay and that they bought a job lot of white goods. If this item is one of that job lot, then this sale comes under Distance Selling Regulations (for businesses) which means OP is liable to provide a full refund or a working product.

I do think the buyer seems to be being unreasonable in refusing the call out of an engineer. I suspect that he HAS possibly somehow damaged the item and just wants a refund and, unfortunately, the law as it stands is in his favour under the Sale of Goods Act. I'm not sure where you would stand with a dispute through the Small Claims Court with his refusal to involve an engineer - it probably depends on the judge on the day.

Sounds like this horrible buyer knows exactly what he's doing! What were your T&C's regarding returns? Might be less hassle to just get him to return it (hopefully at his expense!!), refund him and get it fixed yourself and re-sell.

Good luck :hug:

DIVA1977
18th August 2009, 17:21
Seems good advice from FB. Paypal have always made buyer return at their own expense unless thats changed. So i would offer to refund when he returns the item to you in the condition it left you. Then as FB says try and get it mened under warranty and sell on from there.

Freebird
19th August 2009, 23:30
Seems good advice from FB. Paypal have always made buyer return at their own expense unless thats changed. So i would offer to refund when he returns the item to you in the condition it left you. Then as FB says try and get it mened under warranty and sell on from there.

Good point - this hasn't changed AND his refusal to carry on via paypal also suggests he knows he'd have to return at his expense and is therefore trying to scare you with the whole Small Claims Court thing....stick to your guns - offer to resolve via paypal and keep all correspondence as it will show any court you were willing to resolve and will really help your case.

angelic
20th August 2009, 21:29
I agree with Diva and FB and said the same about buyer having to provide proof of the fault now he/she has raised a PayPal dispute.

Let PayPal decide and bear in mind the buyer won't want to return the freezer at his/her expense. I really think he/she is trying it on with threats to bully you.

Make sure you keep checking the Resolution Centre in your PP account to see if the buyer has responded yet.
Sit tight and see what gives - you are under no obligation to communicate outside of the dispute until PayPal decide one way or another.

HELLO_KITTY
27th August 2009, 19:16
gggrrrrrr ebay !!!! i just sold a practically brand new baby stroller for 70, i was going to do local pick up only but i was soo confident with it as it is 'perfect' i allowed the posting option...i stung myself out of postage by undercharging the buyer...and they have recieved it and are not happy..but they cant give me a good explanation why? they have a zero rating which gave me a bad feeling from the start...they wrote to me in bad english so i couldnt get a good idea of what they are talking about..i have asked for their phone number so i can talk to them...but i cant help but feel totally conned as they want to send it back ... i just have a feeling they are either going to damage it themselves, send me back a different pushchair or not send at all and put in a claim...

angelic
27th August 2009, 21:01
gggrrrrrr ebay !!!! i just sold a practically brand new baby stroller for 70, i was going to do local pick up only but i was soo confident with it as it is 'perfect' i allowed the posting option...i stung myself out of postage by undercharging the buyer...and they have recieved it and are not happy..but they cant give me a good explanation why? they have a zero rating which gave me a bad feeling from the start...they wrote to me in bad english so i couldnt get a good idea of what they are talking about..i have asked for their phone number so i can talk to them...but i cant help but feel totally conned as they want to send it back ... i just have a feeling they are either going to damage it themselves, send me back a different pushchair or not send at all and put in a claim...

Did you send the Stroller via a courier or trackable post?
It is important in the case of a dispute to have proof of delivery. Buyer e-mail is no use as proof unfortunately.

Prior to agreeing with the buyer that they can return, you need to
a) Find out their reason for not being happy
b) Politely explain you can only refund if on return, the Stroller is in same condition as it was when you sent it. Also you are fully entitled not to refund the return postage which you need to explain.

I realise the above may be a bit of a challenge if the buyer's English isn't so good :(
Someone with no feedback would not be likely to know about how to claim a dispute or that they could request to return an item .... I do wonder if the buyer isn't actually a newbie, just using a "new" ID?

Stick to your guns and you can refuse a return if you are a private seller - if you are a business seller, you have to comply with DSR's .