rent capping on house benefit

[mhoc]

Just been listening to a very interesting discussion on rent capping for those on house benefit - I didnt pick up on this in the budget the other week.

Just wondered how and if it affects some people on the group

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:rLx5g3KH6VEJ:www.guardian.co.uk/uk/davehillblog/2010/jun/23/george-osborne-budget-london-housing-crisis+RENT+CAPPING+ON+HOUSE+BENEFITS&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

They said the most affects will be felt in London but they also intereview an MP (?) from Cambridge which is going to have similar problems.

They said people could have a £80 to £100 shortfall each month. So the chap suggested regociating their rent with their landlords - cant see that working and if your landlord or the family dont share the same language that could be difficult. Also suggested cutting back on other outgoings - again this is not going to work, people only getting minimum wage anyway and living hand to mouth.
So families will start/go into even more debt and end up being made homeless and costing the state even more if they have to go into emergency housing. They could try finding cheaper rented properties, unlikely in London and even if you do find something suitable it means longer commuting into work and more expense - even having to change schools for children.
They dont seem to have thought this through at all

[holliemon]

I do think this was to stop people having housing benenfit and paying £1000 a week rent. I think there was mention of a foreign family living in London and paying £1000 a week rent as they have a large family.

I think it is sensible - if you cant afford a large family and be self sufficient ... dont have one.

[mhoc]

I think the cap is something like £250 a week for 2 bedrooms - difficult to find a flat or house in central London at this price. So families with 3 or more children will downsize from 3 bedroom to 2 bedroom smaller properties and end up using the living room as a makeshift bedroom.

And over crowded houses end up with teenagers leaving home too early before they are ready to cope with the adult world.

This happened to someone I know. There was no room for her at home so she ended up living with her boyfriend and his family at just 16. When they broke up she tried to move back home but her brother had taken over her bedroom so he did not have to share (with the other brother). She was sleeping in the lving room until another boyfriend came along and she left to live with him within weeks of meeting him - only 17 then

[Mrs Lady C]

I agree with the cap their are some family's taking the pee, living in great big mansion's which cost £2000 a week+ :mad:

[connorsmummy]

I agree with the cap (and I am on benefits atm) BUT I think some kind of rent capping legislation needs to be brought in- cheap private rentals that are actually livable are very thin on the ground- I know this from when I was looking for somewhere to live.

I am lucky enough to have a housing association house so my rent will always be low, when I was renting privately I was paying 4 times more rent on that house than this one :eek:

Aaanyway, what was I saying? Oh yeah, the housing benefit capping is a good idea, but not if its gonna make families homeless or majorly in debt because they can't find affordable housing. I don't mean the people that take the mickey by expecting the council to pay the rent for mansions they want to live in, I mean properties that are in proportion to their needs.

Can't finish what I wanted to say as my son has just walked in brushing his teeth with my toothbrush- nice

[heatherks]

i think they had to do something and make landlords charge basically the same as what the council are charging for rent

...as a lot of folk are taking the micky living £2 million pound houses because they claim the council dont have big enough houses for them or teh one in DM the other week who didnt like the area his kids were being brought up in ..

quite a few landlords in our area are actually family members who buy up the cheap council houses then rent to family & their friends who then claim the HB to pay their mortgage

[Greenpen]

I am entirely opposed to rent capping. This will hit landlords very hard indeed.

[mhoc]

i think they had to do something and make landlords charge basically the same as what the council are charging for rent


I think that is the idea - to make landlords charge the same as council rents but I think it will mean some landlords decide its not viable for them (or they cant make enough profit) and they will sell their rented properties on. Or more likely more landlords will just not rent to anyone on housing benefit. So the rented properties that no one wants to live in or bad areas will be the ones that people on low incomes and housing benefit having to live in.

The other problem is that there are just not enough council owned and rent controlled properties now, most of the council house stock was sold off.

[beckieboop]

i think capping is a great idea.... private landlords do sometimes take to "p" with rent! i know in this area a council house is less than £400 a month but private is at least £700...sometimes for the exact same type house!
i do think it ought to be set at a rate specifically for different areas too as cost of living etc is so different all over the country.
it wont affect me as my rent is less than the cap but i know people it will affect but then they do live in big houses they really dont need.
bex x

[Gizmos]

well if people cant take responsibility for having three / four kids and support them dont see why everyone else should. If you want that many kids ensure you ahve the means to support them without having to go into social housing and complain when its not in the area you want or not big enough - beggars cant be choosers at the end of the day

am looking at renting my property out and have stipulated no benefits

no doubt will get flamed for this but just because I am a mod doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion

[Jules_2005]

sometimes its just circumstances Giz. I was a homeowner for 16 years, now I rent privately to put a roof over my kids heads after the divorce. I don't get full benefit though as I work part time. My rent is £850 a month and a I pay a little bit more than the average for round here so I am in a nice area for the kids

[hydro]

I think rent has to be capped at a reasonable amount otherwise it's just open to abuse. Circumstances have to be taken into account, and a degree of flexibility allowed as it seems that those who take responsibility for themselves but fall on hard times get treated much worse than some who live off the state as a way of life. I get really fed up of seeing how well scroungers seem to do out of the tax payers pocket and the more kids they have the better they seem to do. But then, I'd pay no child benefit or tax allowance for over two children - if you want more, you pay to keep and house them! :kev: We (society) seem to have lost sight of living within ones own personal means.

BTW Giz, I'd do the same as you.

[connorsmummy]

well if people cant take responsibility for having three / four kids and support them dont see why everyone else should. If you want that many kids ensure you ahve the means to support them without having to go into social housing and complain when its not in the area you want or not big enough - beggars cant be choosers at the end of the day

am looking at renting my property out and have stipulated no benefits

no doubt will get flamed for this but just because I am a mod doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion

Giz can I ask- why don't you want anyone on benefits? Not flaming you, just wondering!

[connorsmummy]

sometimes its just circumstances Giz. I was a homeowner for 16 years, now I rent privately to put a roof over my kids heads after the divorce. I don't get full benefit though as I work part time. My rent is £850 a month and a I pay a little bit more than the average for round here so I am in a nice area for the kids

When I was working full time I didn't get any hb- I was entitled to it but didn't claim as I didn't want the council to be able to dictate to me who could/couldn't stay at my house etc etc- having said that we are talking about a small amount, if it was a lot then I wouldn't have a choice lol.

The area I am in now is lovely and my rent is £89 a week through the housing association- there is a privately owned house on the same row as mine, exactly the same size which is being advertised at £260 a week :eek::der::eek:. The houses are nice but not worth that per week- they are typical new builds and like shoeboxes!

[avstar]

I am entirely opposed to rent capping. This will hit landlords very hard indeed.

How? (wasn't sure if you were being sarky or not :o)

[connorsmummy]

How? (wasn't sure if you were being sarky or not :o)

I don't know a lot about mortgages, but maybe for landlords with big ones?

I mean mortgages!!!

[Gizmos]

if you think what a landlord has to pay out and in additional to possibly a mortgage then perhaps they are not being greedy

they still have insurances etc to take into account - unlike social housing etc the wont be able to take advantage of having tradesmen in teams for them to do work etc so they will have to pay more for this type of service etc

my house will be rented out for circa £575 - £600 pm - have to pay a percentage for the agent to manage this ... now look at the figures if this was 10% .... down to £500 -a mortage on this kinda property would be £450 a month ....

[connorsmummy]

if you think what a landlord has to pay out and in additional to possibly a mortgage then perhaps they are not being greedy

they still have insurances etc to take into account - unlike social housing etc the wont be able to take advantage of having tradesmen in teams for them to do work etc so they will have to pay more for this type of service etc

my house will be rented out for circa £575 - £600 pm - have to pay a percentage for the agent to manage this ... now look at the figures if this was 10% .... down to £500 -a mortage on this kinda property would be £450 a month ....

That is very true Giz- I can see the argument from both sides of the fence.

No easy answer I guess

[mhoc]

Yes I think landlords have "buy to let" mortgages, not like ordinary ones - not sure what the difference is. Then there are insurances and other expences like agents fees, accountants if they are not doing their own books etc.
And then landords are still paying mortgages, insurances etc when the house has no tenant. And pay for the gas certificates etc

I've seen on "Homes under the Hammer" that landlords work to a percentage return - they said things like "This property will give us x% return annually if it was let " but I've never been able to work out what the formula was

[beckieboop]

well if people cant take responsibility for having three / four kids and support them dont see why everyone else should. If you want that many kids ensure you ahve the means to support them without having to go into social housing and complain when its not in the area you want or not big enough - beggars cant be choosers at the end of the day

am looking at renting my property out and have stipulated no benefits

no doubt will get flamed for this but just because I am a mod doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion

in one way i can see why you wouldnt want someone on benefits in your house, but at least you are guarenteed to get your rent... its not just people on benefits who wouldnt pay you.
i live in a 3 bed council house with 4 kids....i got no complaints, it was my choice:D
but i do think it needs capping, £1000 a month for a 3 bed house is just wrong:der:
bex x

[connorsmummy]

in one way i can see why you wouldnt want someone on benefits in your house, but at least you are guarenteed to get your rent... its not just people on benefits who wouldnt pay you.
i live in a 3 bed council house with 4 kids....i got no complaints, it was my choice:D
but i do think it needs capping, £1000 a month for a 3 bed house is just wrong:der:
bex x

I can see your point of view just as I can see Gizmos- and because the LHA is now paid directly to the tenant there is no 'guarantee' that the rent will get paid- I'm guessing this is a big worry for the landlords who accept LHA tenants

Like I said, no easy answer as whichever way you look at it I think someone will lose out tbh

[holliemon]

well if people cant take responsibility for having three / four kids and support them dont see why everyone else should. If you want that many kids ensure you ahve the means to support them without having to go into social housing and complain when its not in the area you want or not big enough - beggars cant be choosers at the end of the day

am looking at renting my property out and have stipulated no benefits

no doubt will get flamed for this but just because I am a mod doesnt mean I am not entitled to an opinion

My thoughts entirely

[holliemon]

sometimes its just circumstances Giz. I was a homeowner for 16 years, now I rent privately to put a roof over my kids heads after the divorce. I don't get full benefit though as I work part time. My rent is £850 a month and a I pay a little bit more than the average for round here so I am in a nice area for the kids

True we dont think of people in your circumstances who are in the situation through no fault of your own.

Its the foreigners who come over with large family or the people who go on telly with 13 children who both do not work and want more children and expect us to pay for their accomodation.

[DaisyChain]

I can see your point of view just as I can see Gizmos- and because the LHA is now paid directly to the tenant there is no 'guarantee' that the rent will get paid- I'm guessing this is a big worry for the landlords who accept LHA tenants

Like I said, no easy answer as whichever way you look at it I think someone will lose out tbh

I never knew that Housing benefit went to tenant not landlord :eek:

[connorsmummy]

I never knew that Housing benefit went to tenant not landlord :eek:

Yep- not sure when it changed though, think its fairly recent? Unless you specifically ask (and I think it has to be special circs) you rent is paid to you and you pay the landlord.

This has sort of extended to public housing as well although you can choose to have it paid direct if you wish- I was asked if I wanted my rent paid to me and I was like noooooooooo!

[Jules_2005]

Yep- not sure when it changed though, think its fairly recent? Unless you specifically ask (and I think it has to be special circs) you rent is paid to you and you pay the landlord.

This has sort of extended to public housing as well although you can choose to have it paid direct if you wish- I was asked if I wanted my rent paid to me and I was like noooooooooo!


I got the option of how I wanted LHA paid ... It can go direct to the landlord if you don't think you can manage your own money

[Khufu]

I thought this was the case anyway - in my area the rent has been capped for about three years. Maximum is £75 p.w. for 2 bedroom, £85 for 3 bedroom. There are no private houses to rent at that level, I have two let out and for that reason won't accept people on benefits becasue they cannot possibly ever pay the rent. I charge £100 per week and have made a loss on one house every year I've had it (average loss about £2k per annum), on teh other I make a tiny profit (£500-£1000 per annum) and it I spend an average of 4 weeks a year working on them.

Even if there wasn't the cap in my area I would no longer accept people on benefits, I have done before and they've merrily collected the benefit knowing that I have to pay to evict them and its really expensive and difficult. They stay for about eight months til the court case gets so far along and then disappear in the night (first time this happened they sold all my furniture first). I am extremely selective about who I let to.

[Khufu]

I got the option of how I wanted LHA paid ... It can go direct to the landlord if you don't think you can manage your own money

Which is great if you're a good tenant, but a lot of people on benefits aren't and you might take them on in this way as a landlord and then they write to the council saying they want it direct and never pay beyond the first couple of weeks, you can't do anything about it.

[VeryTrying]

Which is great if you're a good tenant, but a lot of people on benefits aren't and you might take them on in this way as a landlord and then they write to the council saying they want it direct and never pay beyond the first couple of weeks, you can't do anything about it.

Totally agree with you Khufu. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but we discriminate against those on benefits too - taking them on is just too high a risk. We have an agent who vets prospective tenants, and his first bit of advice was not to let to those on benefits, no matter what they promised.

Initially I felt bad about this, but horror stories like Khufu's have since confirmed that it was a sensible course of action. It's tarring everybody with the same brush, which is wrong, but it's just putting your investment at risk if you are too soft about it :(

[pookienoodle]

Two houses in our town were up for rental last year,both in the same street stipulated no benefits which was a dissapointment for a friend of mine who gets part rent paid.
They were in the paper last week as they were raided and had both been turned into cannabis factories.
I agree with capping,we moved to this town as we couldn't afford to buy a house were we were as the area was regenerated and prices went through the roof.
If this stops people who think they have a right to live in exclusive areas and get their rent paid then fair enough.

In one of the articles about it they said that more money was paid out on housing benefit than is spent on the police force and universities put together:eek:

[Khufu]

Well money spent on universities in negligible! That's no suprise

[mhoc]

I thought this was the case anyway - in my area the rent has been capped for about three years. Maximum is £75 p.w. for 2 bedroom, £85 for 3 bedroom. There are no private houses to rent at that level, I have two let out and for that reason won't accept people on benefits becasue they cannot possibly ever pay the rent. I charge £100 per week and have made a loss on one house every year I've had it (average loss about £2k per annum), on teh other I make a tiny profit (£500-£1000 per annum) and it I spend an average of 4 weeks a year working on them.

Even if there wasn't the cap in my area I would no longer accept people on benefits, I have done before and they've merrily collected the benefit knowing that I have to pay to evict them and its really expensive and difficult. They stay for about eight months til the court case gets so far along and then disappear in the night (first time this happened they sold all my furniture first). I am extremely selective about who I let to.

This is exactly what will happen, the cap is set so low that in some areas private landlords cant afford to accept anyone on housing benefit, no way could they afford their rents, so more familes have to stay on endless housing lists waiting for a council property to come up, often having to live in emergency acommadation or b and bs in the meantime.

I dont think the goverment realises the full costs that landlords bear whn they rent houses out.

Where my eldest lives 2 beds in the middle of town cost around £600 a month, huge student rental market because their grants pay for the rents and they are paid up front 3 months in advance. There are whole streets of these houses, ordinary familes on benefits cant afford them and def wont when the caps come in so you get whole streets where everyone is between the ages of 17 and 22 with all of the potential troubles that come with young adults away form home and then in the summer months most of them go home for 2 months and the streets are more or less desserted.

[connorsmummy]

This is exactly what will happen, the cap is set so low that in some areas private landlords cant afford to accept anyone on housing benefit, no way could they afford their rents, so more familes have to stay on endless housing lists waiting for a council property to come up, often having to live in emergency acommadation or b and bs in the meantime.

I dont think the goverment realises the full costs that landlords bear whn they rent houses out.

Where my eldest lives 2 beds in the middle of town cost around £600 a month, huge student rental market because their grants pay for the rents and they are paid up front 3 months in advance. There are whole streets of these houses, ordinary familes on benefits cant afford them and def wont when the caps come in so you get whole streets where everyone is between the ages of 17 and 22 with all of the potential troubles that come with young adults away form home and then in the summer months most of them go home for 2 months and the streets are more or less desserted.

Its a bit like that here- I live on a housing estate that is mainly private but has some social housing. We are right next to Herts Uni and lots of the townhouses are rented to students during term time who then leave during the summer months.

I personally have never had a problem other than excessive noise occasionally, but I know it is a big issue with other permanent residents

[Khufu]

This is exactly what will happen, the cap is set so low that in some areas private landlords cant afford to accept anyone on housing benefit, no way could they afford their rents, so more familes have to stay on endless housing lists waiting for a council property to come up, often having to live in emergency acommadation or b and bs in the meantime.



And that emergency accomodation is where the unscrupulous landlords are. They're the ones that need sorting out, it costs the govt far more having families in this type of accomodation, in immediate financial costs but then in long term costs to society too.

[connorsmummy]

And that emergency accomodation is where the unscrupulous landlords are. They're the ones that need sorting out, it costs the govt far more having families in this type of accomodation, in immediate financial costs but then in long term costs to society too.

When I was in emergency accommodation 10 years ago, one room in a 'b&b'- no breakfast, just bed was £350 a week :eek::eek::eek:.

[pookienoodle]

This is exactly what will happen, the cap is set so low that in some areas private landlords cant afford to accept anyone on housing benefit, no way could they afford their rents, so more familes have to stay on endless housing lists waiting for a council property to come up, often having to live in emergency acommadation or b and bs in the meantime.

I dont think the goverment realises the full costs that landlords bear whn they rent houses out.

Where my eldest lives 2 beds in the middle of town cost around £600 a month, huge student rental market because their grants pay for the rents and they are paid up front 3 months in advance. There are whole streets of these houses, ordinary familes on benefits cant afford them and def wont when the caps come in so you get whole streets where everyone is between the ages of 17 and 22 with all of the potential troubles that come with young adults away form home and then in the summer months most of them go home for 2 months and the streets are more or less desserted.

This is the point,
20 or 30 years ago landlord were people who had invested in property they could afford to buy outright.
then came along the buy to let mortgage and rents were forced higher as landlords have a minimum amount they can rent for as they are paying a mortage on the property.
the huge growth in the buy to let mortgage was also one of the things that pushed out first time buyers as houses were snapped up by investors.
just walk past any newly built apartment building and you will see all the "for rent" signs going up.

The whole market is in a mess and something needs to be done.
If so many people cannot afford the rents due to the changes then landlords will have empty properties,thus forcing them to sell properties.
This in turn should kick start the FTB market.
I firmly believe this is a "bigger picture" policy.

[mhoc]

Plus I think there will be more couples going back to the old way things were done - still living at home with the parents through the early early with their partners.

Possibly a good thing in some ways, parents can give support to their young adults who are not really ready for the outside world - to run their own home, pay bills, do DIY etc. And it gives couples a chance to get better jobs or promotion and save for deposits.

And as you say landlords will downscale, start selling off some of their housing stock rather than reducing rents to below viable rates and this will put more flats and houses onto the market for first time buyers.

But I think these will still cost too much for first time buyers in place slike London for couples on basic wages who will still have to live at home or lrent properties huge distances from work on the outskirts

[MomaBee]

Plus I think there will be more couples going back to the old way things were done - still living at home with the parents through the early early with their partners.

Possibly a good thing in some ways, parents can give support to their young adults who are not really ready for the outside world - to run their own home, pay bills, do DIY etc. And it gives couples a chance to get better jobs or promotion and save for deposits.

And as you say landlords will downscale, start selling off some of their housing stock rather than reducing rents to below viable rates and this will put more flats and houses onto the market for first time buyers.

But I think these will still cost too much for first time buyers in place slike London for couples on basic wages who will still have to live at home or lrent properties huge distances from work on the outskirts

I do hope prices start to go down, then my twentysomethings can buy their own houses.

[mhoc]

I do hope prices start to go down, then my twentysomethings can buy their own houses.

The thing is that if you are on minimum wage and between a couple they earn say £25 thousand (probally much less if thye are on minimum wages) then this gives you a possible mortgage of £75 thousand (three times salary) for which you might get a small flat - at least around here in Cheshire and Staffordshire - A basic terrace might be around the 90 to 100 thousand mark. You still have to find a huge deposit and enough to pay solicitors and moving costs etc so thats several years of concerntrated saving - doing without holiday and going out et.

[Gizmos]

The thing is that if you are on minimum wage and between a couple they earn say £25 thousand (probally much less if thye are on minimum wages) then this gives you a possible mortgage of £75 thousand (three times salary) for which you might get a small flat - at least around here in Cheshire and Staffordshire - A basic terrace might be around the 90 to 100 thousand mark. You still have to find a huge deposit and enough to pay solicitors and moving costs etc so thats several years of concerntrated saving - doing without holiday and going out et.

but many people do without holidays etc and if they are living with parents they often dont have to pay a lot

[Made in Devon]

I just read an article on AOL's front page about housing benefit capping within the council/housing association sector.

It is going to affect people that under occupy council houses and claim benefit. Look at my hyperlink (http://news.aol.co.uk/austerity-drive-to-mean-home-swaps/article/20100728043209990001)

[connorsmummy]

I just read an article on AOL's front page about housing benefit capping within the council/housing association sector.

It is going to affect people that under occupy council houses and claim benefit. Look at my hyperlink (http://news.aol.co.uk/austerity-drive-to-mean-home-swaps/article/20100728043209990001)

I totally agree with this. You are only supposed to have one more bedroom than you need, but if you are given say a 3 bed house when your kids are small, they then grow up and leave home- you are still in that house with the 2 spare rooms- who needs that many spare rooms lol. I know someone who still lives in the 4 bed house that her kids have all moved out of, and she claims housing benefit for it. This is my grandmother by the way, and my father tried for years to get her to move somewhere smaller- the majority of the rooms in the house aren't even used, just full of junk- the front lounge was last used in 1974, when my granddad died!!!

If the capping is enforced then hopefully it will result in more exchanges/transfers so that people who are desperately overcrowded will be able to get the space they need and vice versa.

[Gizmos]

I just read an article on AOL's front page about housing benefit capping within the council/housing association sector.

It is going to affect people that under occupy council houses and claim benefit. Look at my hyperlink (http://news.aol.co.uk/austerity-drive-to-mean-home-swaps/article/20100728043209990001)

well I do have to say that I think that this is a good move on the governement. Why should people be subsidised for aproperty that is too big for their needs - especially when there are waiting lists

well done I say to the person who thought of that initiative - but maybe I am thick as I thought that tenancy should be reviewed periodically especially when people move out (ie children)

[connorsmummy]

well I do have to say that I think that this is a good move on the governement. Why should people be subsidised for aproperty that is too big for their needs - especially when there are waiting lists

well done I say to the person who thought of that initiative - but maybe I am thick as I thought that tenancy should be reviewed periodically especially when people move out (ie children)

That's not being thick- that's having common sense! If those numbers in that article are accurate the government could seriously reduce, if not eradicate (is that the right word?) overcrowding completely.

No clue why this wasn't thought of years ago tbh.

[Gizmos]

maybe they will start a dial a dweller phoneline to report people who live under capacity

mind you I dont even think that you should be allowed even one spare room in a council property ...

ok I am a harsh git

[Made in Devon]

I am a local authority tennant and I also agree. However, I have always said that if only the council would make it easy then many people would probably move to a smaller home quite happily.

The system is not easy at the moment (Anyone who knows anything about the bidding system will agree with me)

10 years ago, my In-Laws (council tennants) wanted to move out of their lovely little 2 bedroomed house to a bungalow. They phoned the council, had a meeting and were offered a retirement bungalow on the spot, certainly it must have been good timing that there was one vacant at that point, but it was so easy. They moved, thus freeing up a family home. Perfect.

Now, you have to be allocated a priority band and bid against any house you are interested in moving into, whether it be a larger house where there is a list, or whether you are trying to downsize, or like myself quite simply trying to go sideways and keep the same size house but in a different area.

I think the idea is a good one, but as this will affect a lot of elderley people then it needs to be made easy and stress-free. You could in theory be talking about up rooting old people that have llived in their homes for 50+ years.....

[Made in Devon]

maybe they will start a dial a dweller phoneline to report people who live under capacity

mind you I dont even think that you should be allowed even one spare room in a council property ...

ok I am a harsh git

This is not about people who under occupy a house, this is about under-occupiers claiming housing benefit

[connorsmummy]

maybe they will start a dial a dweller phoneline to report people who live under capacity

mind you I dont even think that you should be allowed even one spare room in a council property ...

ok I am a harsh git

That's not harsh, its your opinion- you're entitled to it like everyone else. I'm not saying that you should have a spare room, but if you have grandkids etc I guess its very useful if they come and stay? Or if you have an infinite stash of h&b- somewhere to put it ;)

I would love to have a spare room (greedy me) purely to use as a craft room, or even to just have a little bit more space as my house resembles a shoebox lol. Having said that, during my brief move to Yarmouth, we lived in a 3 bed house with a separate dining room, 2 bathrooms (ex had ideas above his station!) and I hated having that much space, so maybe I wouldn't like a spare room after all- I'll find out when Connor leaves home lol.

I love the idea of dial a dweller, that's fab!

[connorsmummy]

I am a local authority tennant and I also agree. However, I have always said that if only the council would make it easy then many people would probably move to a smaller home quite happily.

The system is not easy at the moment (Anyone who knows anything about the bidding system will agree with me)

10 years ago, my In-Laws (council tennants) wanted to move out of their lovely little 2 bedroomed house to a bungalow. They phoned the council, had a meeting and were offered a retirement bungalow on the spot, certainly it must have been good timing that there was one vacant at that point, but it was so easy. They moved, thus freeing up a family home. Perfect.

Now, you have to be allocated a priority band and bid against any house you are interested in moving into, whether it be a larger house where there is a list, or whether you are trying to downsize, or like myself quite simply trying to go sideways and keep the same size house but in a different area.

I think the idea is a good one, but as this will affect a lot of elderley people then it needs to be made easy and stress-free. You could in theory be talking about up rooting old people that have llived in their homes for 50+ years.....

I didn't know you had to bid to downsize- what a daft change of policy. The bidding system is a nightmare and I can't quite work out if it makes it more or less fair than the old 'points' system. I was so lucky- the council started the bidding system a week after I was offered the tenancy for this place.

[Made in Devon]

Oh yes, When I go on the page that has the houses I can bid on, I am offered a 2 or 3 bedroomed house, strange though when I still have 2 of my kids living at home (male 21 & female 19) but if I wanted a 2 bedroomed one I would have to make a bid in the same way.

[Gizmos]

This is not about people who under occupy a house, this is about under-occupiers claiming housing benefit

if not on benefit its fine I guess as they are paying the same as someone regardless of how many tenants

yeah experienced the bid system during the divorce last year - is all very strange in a way - but I guess they have the "laddering" in but if you want to move you really are at the bottom of the ladder as "unhoused" take advantage

[mhoc]

maybe they will start a dial a dweller phoneline to report people who live under capacity

mind you I dont even think that you should be allowed even one spare room in a council property ...

ok I am a harsh git

I think one room spare might be OK for instance if you have a child from another relationship that stays at weekends and holidays you would need one spare bedroom. Or even an elderly parent who stays periodically when his/her health is not good and they need looking after.

If you have a council house are you allowed to rent your spare room out to a lodger?

[MomaBee]

The thing is that if you are on minimum wage and between a couple they earn say £25 thousand (probally much less if thye are on minimum wages) then this gives you a possible mortgage of £75 thousand (three times salary) for which you might get a small flat - at least around here in Cheshire and Staffordshire - A basic terrace might be around the 90 to 100 thousand mark. You still have to find a huge deposit and enough to pay solicitors and moving costs etc so thats several years of concerntrated saving - doing without holiday and going out et.

but many people do without holidays etc and if they are living with parents they often dont have to pay a lot

Exactly what my eldest's done, prices are abit more here but still possible. Two more to go and then I can downsize:D

[mhoc]

I didn't know you had to bid to downsize- what a daft change of policy. The bidding system is a nightmare and I can't quite work out if it makes it more or less fair than the old 'points' system. I was so lucky- the council started the bidding system a week after I was offered the tenancy for this place.

Can anyone explain the bidding system?

[Made in Devon]

Can anyone explain the bidding system?

In a nutshell. You apply to go onto the council housing list, for whatever reason... you are given a priority band. A being the most needy and D the lowest priority. You are also told what size home you are allowed to bid on.

In our area, once a fortnight a list is published with all the vacant properties in it. The publication is live for about 5 days and online, via text, via post you can bid on suitable properties. I believe you can phone up and ask what place you came in the bids. It is then published how many people bidded for each property and to what priority band the property was allocated to.

Does that make sense?

[Gizmos]

In a nutshell. You apply to go onto the council housing list, for whatever reason... you are given a priority band. A being the most needy and D the lowest priority. You are also told what size home you are allowed to bid on.

In our area, once a fortnight a list is published with all the vacant properties in it. The publication is live for about 5 days and online, via text, via post you can bid on suitable properties. I believe you can phone up and ask what place you came in the bids. It is then published how many people bidded for each property and to what priority band the property was allocated to.

Does that make sense?

thats basically the same for Newcastle - if you get offered a viewing you get told that five people have been offered a viewing and you are number 3 in the queue

[Made in Devon]

I am on various house exchange web sites stating which areas I would like to move to, the area I live in now is quite nice and definately sought after, perfect for younger families. The areas I would like to live in (If I was that lucky) are more out in the sticks.

I had a phone call from a lady recently who is very high priority and desperatly wants to live in my area. she said that on the bidding system a couple weeks ago she came 4th, this particular week there were a couple houses on the list that I would love, she said that if she bidded for them and was sucessful, would I like to come with her to view it, so we could instantly work out if we coud mutually exchange.

[connorsmummy]

Oh yes, When I go on the page that has the houses I can bid on, I am offered a 2 or 3 bedroomed house, strange though when I still have 2 of my kids living at home (male 21 & female 19) but if I wanted a 2 bedroomed one I would have to make a bid in the same way.

So are there absolutely no council allocated properties now? That makes no sense lol. What I mean is, the council doesn't allocate properties to people unless they have bidded on them first in every circumstance?

MID, changing subject completely- have you tried Homeswapper for a mutual exchange? Might be someone on there just desperate to move to your exact street- you never know!

[connorsmummy]

I am on various house exchange web sites stating which areas I would like to move to, the area I live in now is quite nice and definately sought after, perfect for younger families. The areas I would like to live in (If I was that lucky) are more out in the sticks.

I had a phone call from a lady recently who is very high priority and desperatly wants to live in my area. she said that on the bidding system a couple weeks ago she came 4th, this particular week there were a couple houses on the list that I would love, she said that if she bidded for them and was sucessful, would I like to come with her to view it, so we could instantly work out if we coud mutually exchange.

I think we cross posted about exchanges lol!

Don't you have to be a tenant in your property for a certain period of time before you are eligible for exchange? I know I wasn't eligible for 6 months, maybe its different in every area?

[Made in Devon]

I have no idea how long you have to be a tenant for, before you can exchange. I have lived here for 20 years! I am a member of homeswapper.

As I understand it, the council allocates the homes and all moves go through them, even though I pay my rent to a Housing Association as it all changed a few years ago.

[connorsmummy]

I have no idea how long you have to be a tenant for, before you can exchange. I have lived here for 20 years! I am a member of homeswapper.

As I understand it, the council allocates the homes and all moves go through them, even though I pay my rent to a Housing Association as it all changed a few years ago.

I'm sure you would be fine to move, but the lady you are speaking about may have to live in the property for 6 months to be eligible for exchange- could be completely off base though as I would guess every council/ housing association have different rules.

[Made in Devon]

I'm sure you would be fine to move, but the lady you are speaking about may have to live in the property for 6 months to be eligible for exchange- could be completely off base though as I would guess every council/ housing association have different rules.

Thats a good point CM. Mind you i fit was the right house I would be prepared to wait. I am not sure if the other lady has thought it through though, as one of the reasons she wants to move to my place is that she has an autistic son and her parents are very supportive and they live near me somewhere. Both of these houses she bidded on are very rural. Mind you, I haven't heard from her in a couple weeks so I guess she didn't get anywhere with the bid.

[Gizmos]

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/Tories-to-end-council-homes.6455594.jp

might be interesting

[BritBrat]

And when the tenant moves out will they sell it off?

Resulting in less and less council houses, we need more not less affordable homes.

[smerch1468]

The conservative government have made a start on capping costs which had become ridiculous under Labour.

On the one hand you had large families refusing homes outside central london and then being housed in million pound mansions in kensington, claiming over £100k in housing benefit.

On the other hand you have greedy landlords who sign up to rent guarantee schemes because they know even if their property is still empty they will pocket the going rent. And when the property is vacant they claim all the upkeep costs eg decorating and building work from the housing association. Another example of taxpayers money that is being wasted.

The cap of £1600 a calendar month for a family of four is reasonable. You can live in a very nice house in a leafy suburb of london for that money. But some people are never satisfied.

[Pandoraskids]

Have read right through this thread & can sympathise with both landlords & tenants.

A good few years ago now, my sister bought a house to get herself onto the housing ladder & rented it out. She had a tenant on benefits & rent went directly to her as the landlady. The tenant did a runner, leaving the house in a right mess & although rent had been paid by DSS, they worked out when moved out & reclaimed rent from that date. Loss of rent about 3 months & huge cleaning bill :mad:

However, when I first got divorced, was thinking I may have to rent myself & was on benefits I was saddened to find that most private rentals said 'no benefits'

I now own my own house & the property next door is rented privately to a couple who are on benefits. They are a lovely family with 3 kids - couldn't wish for better neighbours

I suppose bad tenants make landlords wary & I understand that but not all benefit claimants deserve to be tarred with the same brush - but ho9w do you tell?

I guess it's a bit of a sticky area dependant whether you are a prospective landlord or tenant

[moonriver]

Totally agree with you Khufu. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but we discriminate against those on benefits too - taking them on is just too high a risk. We have an agent who vets prospective tenants, and his first bit of advice was not to let to those on benefits, no matter what they promised.

Initially I felt bad about this, but horror stories like Khufu's have since confirmed that it was a sensible course of action. It's tarring everybody with the same brush, which is wrong, but it's just putting your investment at risk if you are too soft about it :(
I have a property which I let to a family on benefits. Never had any problems and it's been three years now. They told me that if I gave them the opportunity (I was wary at first) they would never let me down. So far so good!

[Mrs Lady C]

Totally agree with you Khufu. I know it's not a nice thing to say, but we discriminate against those on benefits too - taking them on is just too high a risk. We have an agent who vets prospective tenants, and his first bit of advice was not to let to those on benefits, no matter what they promised.

Initially I felt bad about this, but horror stories like Khufu's have since confirmed that it was a sensible course of action. It's tarring everybody with the same brush, which is wrong, but it's just putting your investment at risk if you are too soft about it :(

I know quite a few landlords who let privately and to people on benefits, as far as I can tell the people on benefits have been there longest tenants with no problems whatsoever. I think if you choose wisely and let the tenants treat the property as their home by not putting lots of restriction on them ie pets/smoking etc they will be more likely to stay as a long term tenant which will save money in the long run on redecorating costs/empty periods etc. :D

[VeryTrying]

I think if you choose wisely and let the tenants treat the property as their home by not putting lots of restriction on them ie pets/smoking etc they will be more likely to stay as a long term tenant which will save money in the long run on redecorating costs/empty periods etc. :D

Don't you think Khufu tried to get good people in the property? Or do you think that so many restrictions were put on the tenants that they decided to
sell the furniture before skipping without paying the rent ;)

[Mrs Lady C]

Don't you think Khufu tried to get good people in the property? Or do you think that so many restrictions were put on the tenants that they decided to
sell the furniture before skipping without paying the rent ;)

No offence Khufu :o obviously not VeryTrying, if one lot walked off with the furniture and the other lot didn't pay for months. I was just stating what I know as fact when I posted my opinion it is obviously up to you who you decide to let too. :p